rekall | Second verse, same as the first?

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Second verse, same as the first?

Lately, I've been thinking about (yet again) how homophobic some CLAMP fans can be. I've seen nothing blatant lately (like denying that Subaru loves Seishirou) but I've seen little things here and there (mostly related to a few wiki sites).

That's something that never made sense to me. If you're a homophobe, why CLAMP? I mean there's are thousands of mangas out there (Onemanga.com alone has almost 600 series listed and they're missing some pretty famous/popular series) and most of them don't have canon gay. There are other magical girl mangas, there are other violent and bloody mangas, there are other WTF MY BRAIN!!!! mangas; instead of wasting your time on CLAMP wouldn't it make sense to read those other series instead?

Even if you do read CLAMP "despite the gay" why is there a need to be a jerk to CLAMP fans who do like that kind of stuff? I'm not crazy about brother/sister incest but I would never (for example) walk into the Angel Sanctuary fandom, mock Setsuna's and Sara's relationship, say they were simply confused kids and say that any fans of the pairing were 'sick'.

What gets me the most though is when they claim teh ghei doesn't exist. Seishirou/Subaru? Just friends. Fuuma/Kamui? They're like brothers! Kakei/Saiga? "Questionable" relationship but no solid proof. Tomoyo? Loves Sakura like a sister! Yeah, one side in these fandom fights is definitely in denial but I don't think it's the side that I'm on. Or is it normal to get a bomb implanted in your brain for someone you've only known a few days?

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I don't understand it either. Like you, I wouldn't go into another fandom and mock the pairings.

Those people are stupid, and really, if you're that against something, why would you seek it out? Why not just avoid it?

Something like Fuuma/Kamui or Lantis/Eagle can be debated (though the subtext is hard to deny). But dude - Seishioru/Subaru, Touya/Yukito, Saya/Tohru, Gingetsu/Ran and Kakei/Saiga are all unquestionably canon by the source and/or CLAMP itself. And CCS? Their most famous work? Uh was about acceptance. They wrote in gay couples and teacher/student couples and presented them in a positive light because they felt it was important that children learn to be accepting of other people's choices in life.

I mean even Syaoran/Sakura is biracial, which is a big deal in Japan.

That so many people fail to get the overreaching theme of acceptance in most of their works boggle my mind.

It's not just homophobia, it's everything. Because Tomoyo/Sakura is sick because EW THEY'RE JUST FRIENDS and then Kusanagi/Yuzuriha, probably the healthiest relationship in X, is sick and disgusting because Kusanagi is a filthy pedo. The same with Eriol/Kaho, or whatever pairing you can think of that isn't, dunno, SyaoSaku.

Which is why I love that CLAMP has turned that pairing into a sort of incestual AU thing |D Cause of all the self-righteous little fanbrats who have been bashing charas and pairings for years while glorifying their precious SxS.

I mean even Syaoran/Sakura is biracial, which is a big deal in Japan.
WIN!

I didn't even think about it - but I love that CLAMP did. It's really amazing how much thought they put into Sakura's character in CCS.

I also grinned really hard when they talked about how SyaSaku was biracial and how much it never mattered to Sakura.

That interview where they talk about CCS and how it's meant to show different types of lifestyles and different types of families and different types of lives - and that Sakura didn't care that Syaoran is Japanese, or that he lived alone, or even that he was a boy, because if he had been a girl, she'd still have fallen for him because he's "Syaoran" - it should be enough to show any fanbrat that they're missing the ENTIRE POINT of the manga when they whine about Tomoyo/Sakura or Eriol/Kaho.

... Of course, it isn't. I quoted it entirely to a guy and he still kept saying that Tomoyo wasn't in love with Sakura and that people were just sick for seeing those pairings in such a "healthy" anime.

Well screw them then. Tomoyo's love was not sick - just the opposite.

*nod nod* One of the reasons why I love CCS so much is because it's accepting of all types of relationships. That's why I get really annoyed when I see fans missing the point of it.

I always forget that Syaoran/Sakura is a biracial pairing and that it's a big deal. Every time I get reminded of that, I love that CLAMP did that.

I mostly like the teacher/student relationship was presented as a positive thing for both characters. Because, yes, it is possible.

You're right, it's everything. I swear CLAMP has got some of the dumbest fans.

I also love the fact that CLAMP has decided to do the whole TRC!Syaoran is in love with his mom thing. I thought it was a pretty awesome that they want fuck up one of their normal, cute and sweet pairings.

Yeah, I avoid things (fandoms/pairings) that I don't like. I don't understand why it's so hard for other fans to do the same thing.

They're certainly not going to make fans change their minds. For example, a SeiSub fan isn't suddenly going to stop shipping them because a homophobe has said that Seishirou and Subaru are "just friends".

Yeah, I'm not normally a big teacher/student but I thought it was sweet how they handled those relationships. I particularly loved Fujitaka/Nadeshiko.

One point why I don't join any CLAMP fan comm unless I know mods and members.

Hehehe and well, since Jack from 5D's just on his mission; saving his sex slave Yuusei. I'm impatiently waiting for EP7 release. (Really can't stand poor quality pic over Youtube -_-;;;)

LOL on incest thing. *snort* I ship TouyaxSakura HA.

BUT IF THEY DID AVOID THOES THINGS THEY WON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WHIIIIIINE ABOUT!!! << clearly you see the tragdey in here.

pfffff, attiontion whores really pisses me off sometimes =_=

I don't find CLAMP LJ comms to be that bad (my guess too many yaoi fans on LJ). It's the places outside of LJ that idiots like.

I should watch 5D. I miss YGO but really didn't care for GX, so I've been holding off on 5D.

GX isn't something I enjoy much as well. (Other than RyouxAsuka I don't even watch anime :P)

But for the 5D's :3 Even some het fans also think Jack (Seto's clone) acts like Yuusei's (look much like Mokuba and Yami's child) boyfriend... Hehehe...

Well after encountered with sucka mod, I'm being careful not to join with such I don't know about mods and members for not new fandom again. And from seeing your rants about how crazy CLAMP fanbrats be... Nah... Stay away is best (as well I do for Bleach.)

You're probably right. Attention whores need a way to get their attention and whining is the easiest way (with the fastest results).

(Hi, I wandered in from your comment in a clamp_rants post today.)

Speaking as someone who isn't really a fan of slash(I'm not UNinterested and don't dislike it, I just don't get the fanon shipping thing at all[canon shipping I completely get], regardless of gender combinations, and in most of what I read, the canon is het, though I am finding more manga with slash lately that I'm liking) I erally don't get the "no, it's not slash" thing with Clamp, either. I'm very much a newbie to Clamp(I watched both versions of the X/1999 anime last year, then was lured in by the pretty of xxxHolic, then was lured in by Tsubasa, and now have been poperly brainwashed and shall be hunting down other Clamp works) but I don't think you could miss it with anti-slash blinders. Seishiro/Subaru is blatant, and Himawari/Watanuki/Doumeki, Tomoyo/Kurogane/Fai, and Kotori/Fuuma/Kamui all seem deliberately set up for you to endorse every which way (between Clamp and Cantarella, I have now learned the value of the OT3.) I haven't read it yet, but I'm told that even CCS!Syaoran is biisexual, and he and CCS!Sakura fight over a guy.

Long story short: I don't see how anyone could miss the slash, and i'm not even a slash fan.

(Man...I'm even going to start reading Angel Sanctuary soon. The incest-even adopted/grew up together- is one of my major fictional "NO WAY!"s, but the supernatural possession/forces/reincarnation aspects of a few manga seem to address a lot of my concerns. I wasn't even phased by the real!Syaoran/real!Sakura pseudo-incest reveal...just as long as she didn't actually give birth to him...the clones get most of my shipping obsessiveness there, anyway.)

(Hi to you too!)

I always love it when someone who isn't normally a fan of something ends up liking the story anyway. Back when I was still writing fanfics, my favourite review that I ever got was one that went along the lines of 'I normally don't like slash, but I really liked what you did here'. That review really warmed my heart.

As for Angel Sanctuary, despite the main pairing being one of my major squicks, it really is a great story. It's one of my favourites.

Well, I don't dislike slash, or even have strong feelings one way or the other about canon slash. I really don't care if something I read has het, slash, or is completely gen, I just want to be entertained. It's just that most canon slash in manga tends to code one guy as female, and when I encounter a pairing where one is coded as female, I want it to actually BE a female. I've had better results with m/m pairings when they've popped up in my sff and mystery books.

Clamp and You Higuri have the ability to make me squeeful over just about anything, though, even if they don't make me ship a lot. So far, all I really ship in Clamp are the Clones and Sorata/Arashi, and I didn't ship the clones until vol 16. Until then, I was "yes, you are cute and I support you and I like you both and your story, but you don't interest me a lot" but then he went all soulless and suddenly it was the girl who had been protected and who had nothing but him to ground her having him yanked away, and put in the position of having to find and save him while having someone just like him(but not quite) right there and pining after her and I was all "HELLO!!!"

Meanwhile, the dynamics(as presented in the X/1999 anime) of Seishirou/Subaru and Fuuma/Kamui both fascinate me(more than any other dynamics in the series), but I don't think I could ever ship either one. Not because they're m/m, but because both involve one torturing the other, trying to kill him, and murdering the person he loves most in front of him(err...I think Seishirou killed Hokuto in front of Subaru?) Makes for awesome drama, but I kinda define shipping as "Oh! Hai! Plz to be ending up happy and playing tonsil hockey at the end!" which doesn't really apply in those cases.

Angel Sanctuary I've read some of, though it was back when it was first coming out. One of my coworker was reading it and I read to...well, I don't know how many volumes. Mostly I remember that I loved Kira and the 2 angels(the girl angel looked like a boy, and the boy angel was a crossdresser, iirc) and was neutral about Setsuna and Sara(h?). The last volume I read(the coworker got fired) was when she was killed, so I know the sex didn't make me run away screaming. Similarly, I'm not disturbed by Cesare's VERY incestuous feelings for his half sister in Cantarella(hers seem to be more projecting because he was the only one who cared about her for so long, and her feelings seem to have turned more towards normal sisterly feelings now that she's met Chiaro.) I'm also not weirded out (in that way) by Aki's complex over Aya in Ceres. I think it's the whole extreme supernatural/reincarnation/mythology part. It seems to move it from my mind from strictly incest to primarily reincarnation/mythology. At least, as near as I can tell, because things with "normal" incest, including stepsiblings, grew up apart, and grew up like siblings always set off my "NO WAY!!!!" alarms and make my stomach churn.

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Second verse, same as the first?

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